Wednesday, 13 May 2015

Walk this way!




Hello Dear Reader,

As I promised you this morning, here is my reply to your email. Thanks for agreeing to me answering on here and allowing this 'quandry' to be thought about in the open. I'll let that phrase 'in the open' rest with you a while and let you think about it.

Here without any details of who or where are the issues: decent job, a life style to maintain and most of it is for show and all funded by credit that you will pay later. It's now amassed to thousands . One of the partnership feels duty bound to maintain this lifestyle whilst you, who wrote to me are worried and want a different way. The words that struck a chord with me and will with many who read this is that you are 'at your wits end with worry'. So many people in debt lose sleep, their health suffers and their children are affected by the worry of their parents. Debt can and does cause severe mental health problems which can lead to more debt and more worry. It can be a downward spiral but here's the positive thing. You've asked for help and here's my public promise to you.......I'm with you every step of the way!

Your partner is still in the earn it, spend more that they earn and keep spending phase of this issue and you want advice. Well here it is! If he can't help himself, if he's spiraling ever downwards then you are going to have to use shock tactics and take control of the situation. You know how much the debt is so I assume from that that you are aware of: overdrafts, credit cards, car payments and loans. You must also be aware of monthly amounts and payment schedules. If not then, by any means, find out. Get all of the facts and figures and sorry to mention this, but the figure you think is the final amount may be smaller than you think. 

You are going to need to find out a set of figures: total monies coming in and total monies going out. You will need to track all spending for a month: fuel, car costs, running costs, all direct debits and keep every receipt. Where do you spend money? Do you eat takeaways? eat in restaurants? buy clothes? go on day trips? weekends away? have club memberships? wine club memberships? occasional spending.......those trips to Tesco for a top up soon stack up? You need to get a picture of who spends what, when and what are you buying?

The big part of this that most people avoid is confrontation, challenge and change and you are both going to have to face up to all of these. If you've never had a row about money before, then you are just about to. There will be upset, crying, door slamming and emotional purging. One of you is having an affair with spending and the other is being cheated on! For some people this is a deal breaker but a real, strong and truly loving relationship will survive this. If one of you has the financial control, spends everything and leaves the partner worrying about this then you've got one heck of a domestic on your hands. All you can do is put on your big girl's knickers and your Wonder woman cape and dig in for a long slog.

The good news! Your debts are half your annual income. Ours were two thirds of our joint annual income (at the time, we earn less now) and with total determination and short term deprivation we made our way out of debt in less than two years. If you pledge one third of your after tax income per month to debt repayment, you can be out of debt in two years. Any one can suffer any lifestyle change for such a short space of time.

Now here's the only tough bit if one of you is living a lie and that big fat smelly lie is trying to keep up with the Jones when you can't afford it. Be honest!!! You can turn down invites for a couple of years because you are trying to improve your family's finances. That's all you need to say. Yes, some people will be numpties and challenge that but you don't have to grace them with any sort of answer. Let them think what they like! We told people we were paying off debts and were not ashamed to say we are improving our family finances. If people didn't like it then they can lump it! We didn't go anywhere or do anything until we were debt free and now we are, we still mostly turn down invites as we still don't have money to throw away. If I can't turn up to your wedding in my ordinary clothes then you don't want the real me so what am I going for? 

Yes, people, usually in debt themselves, will do the willy waving, look at my: car (on finance), holiday (on the credit card), flashy kitchen (on a bank loan) and try and impress you. If you are genuine friends, then carry on being genuine friends but start to weed out the chaff of the fakers, piss takers and hangers on and rid yourselves not only of debt but the dusty collection of people with bad habits who are more interested in what you have instead of a genuine friendship where people can be honest with each other. Think of it this way, if you'd given up alcohol, would you still stand in a boozy pub with a bunch of drunks whilst you were sipping on barley water? It's just not compatible. You may need to move on and keep on moving.

So lovvie, here is the summary. Get the facts - what do you owe? what are the monthly repayments? what are you spending money on? The tough bit, you've got to woman up! He's got his head up his **** and you're worried sick. It's time for you to have equal say and if you want the debts gone then you've really go to show him how it can be done by looking at what you can stop spending money on to free up money to pay off debts. Remember the figure, one third of your after tax income needs to go on debt repayment a month.

1. Build up an emergency fund first - we worked on £500 in the bank that was for real emergencies! Christmas is not an emergency, it's an annual occurrence!!

2. List all your debts from smallest to largest.

3. Keep paying the minimum payment on all of them.

4. Take one third of your after tax income and throw it all the smallest debt first.

5. When that is all gone, take all the money you were paying on that debt and move it to the next and keep paying the minimum payment on that debt too (minimum payment + third of after tax income).

6. By my calculations, you should have all your debts gone in two years! If you have a good credit score then use interest free credit cards to move debts into and pay off debt quicker. Make sure you pay off the balance before the free credit is up. Use price comparison sites to get the best deals on this such as Go compare. 

With the two thirds of your after tax income break that down into:

1. Mortgage.
2. Utilities - switch and save - get the best deals
3. Insurances - use price comparison site and also cashback sites to get the best deals plus cashback.
4. Food - switch down, go down a brand, use generic, shop in the local market, Lidl, Aldi and buy supermarket basic. Home cook, bulk cook, menu plan and set a budget each week and stick to it.
5. Transport to work costs - you've got to keep your jobs. Find a price for servicing and start setting aside a monthly amount to cover the cost when it's due. Cost £300 so you need to set aside £25 a month into an account to pay for this. if your bus fare, train pass is a regular amount to commute to work then this is at the top of your priorities. 
6. Clothes, your child is growing so clothe him/ her - there are good clothes for children in Primark, Tesco, Asda and you don't need to spend much. You and your husband are not growing so make so with what you have! Sell excess clothes on ebay and keep clothes in a Paypal account to use for vitals such as new work shoes, bras, boxers or tights. 
7. Sell everything you don't need - use the money to pay off debts.
8. Only buy birthday and Christmas presents for children, the adults can get by with a token....who doesn't love a shower gel or bar of chocolate! If they need impressing then ask yourselves about the kind of shallow plonkers you hang round with! 
9. Set aside 5% from the two thirds of your after tax income for saving, this will pay for school trips, hair cuts and real necessities. Make up is not a necessity..........Mua in Superdrug or Aldi's make up if it is vital to you but get used to buying 98% less than you every used to. 
10. Money left at the end of the month? Move it one month into a savings account and one month as a debt over payment. 


Now here's the most important one! Earn extra money!!! All of that money will go to an ongoing emergency fund that needs topping up. If the washing machine breaks down, the car needs new tyres, your only shoes have a split in the sole, then you need to turn to savings as you can not add one penny to the debts. This is the first phase of the new way of living, you only spend real money. Your own, that you've earned that month or saved from previous months. This amount will be meagre to some but it's the realistic amount of money that you have and be proud of it. You've earned it, it's yours. It will be more than some but less than others. It will have to be enough as now, that's all there is!

Here's the target date, in May 2017, you will be debt free! You will have a disposable income of one third of your after tax salary per month. 

It is possible.

Now gird your loins, you've got a blinkered, stubborn, resistant to change man to nudge firmly in the right direction. Be loving, be charming, be kind but be firm! You will need to love each other more than ever over the next two years and at times, you both will be all you have to keep yourselves going. 

Keep in touch lovvie and good luck.

Until tomorrow,

Love Froogs xxxxx


15 comments:

  1. To the dear person that wrote to Frugal Queen- Well done. This is a fab plan from one that knows all about the subject. Keep following this every bit will help. We are all learning on here and gaining lots of knowledge and savings now. Welcome to the club!

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  2. Wow! Froogs said it all and said it well! I have nothing to add except that I enjoy the frugal lifestyle. I always have. When we overspent--not a terrible amount, but still vexing--it wasn't buying us happiness. Just STUFF. I am ashamed to admit that we got out of debt when my mother died and I received a small inheritance. This is a hard way to get out of debt! But I am proud to acknowledge that we have been debt free for 20 years, retired, and our finances are secure. We enjoy a wonderful lifestyle with no financial worries.

    One of the things that is going to surprise you about being debt-free is how much more time you have, and how you use it. STUFF requires time to buy, time to pay for, time to maintain, time to use. And, when you get to be my age (69)...time to get rid of it! Life is just so much easier when you have less stuff. That's reason enough to quit buying it.

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  3. Dear person who wrote asking for this help, we were in your position but worse 4 years ago. Our debts were almost the same as our annual income. I couldn't sleep, it affected my health and our son worried about our finances too. At worst, we were using the credit card to pay for our mortgage. We also took several mortgage holidays, where we didn't pay the mortgage some months. The crunch came when we were faced with an unexpected bill and were maxed out on the credit cards and overdraft. I felt sick! I had to phone the bank and explain why we needed to extend the overdraft and I felt so ashamed.

    It took a while to get my OH on board. He kept taking money out of the cash machine to buy 'rubbish' and it would infuriate me. I decided that the only way to get out of debt was to give him a separate spending account and take the other bank cards away from him. Fortunately, this shocked him into curtailing his spending and I didn't need to do this.

    We had a really tough 3 years trying to clear the debt and sometimes, I felt near to tears and very frustrated. We did all of what Froogs has suggested to you, including turning down invitations and buying presents. It made us tougher and cleared the debt quicker than we had anticipated. Some 'friends' abandoned us because we stopped joining in with some things, the real friends stuck by us and supported our decision. But it was so totally worth it. The day we paid off the last of our debt felt wonderful. One year later and we are debt free, have savings and are overpaying the mortgage. I will never get into debt again.

    Very best of luck to you. There are many of us here supporting you all the way xx

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  4. Excellent advice as always Froogs!

    I can attest to the fact that the so called 'friends' will certainly disappear when you can longer fund the lifestyle they enjoyed at your expense. Some may hang around in the early days for the novelty value but when they see you're really not spending ANY money on dinners/parties/nights out they'll scarper. Be prepared for facing the fact that your friends aren't really friends.

    But on the plus side you get to make new ones on your own terms :-)

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  5. I would love to give out copies of this post for Christmas and Birthdays!

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  6. "One of you is having an affair with spending, the other is being cheated on" - my god Froogs you tell it like it is.
    I sincerely hope the person who wrote to you will heed your advice...
    Another great post.

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    1. I loved that line too. Beware of STD's , sexually transmitted debt ;-)

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  7. Hear you loud and clear we were once in a home with an unstable mortgague, by that I mean it was an interest only and there was never enough income to build the capital to pay off the end debt. In hind sight we got lucky when they decided to re build our district andthe house was compulsory purchased.A starteling way to become debt free. Money is tight and I have been decluttering the house as I had begun to hord and an incident pulled me up short and made me re address life.
    All I can say to thereader whos about to make a HUGE change. Stick to your guns you CAN become debt free by following advice such as Froogs has given.I use snipits and its kept my head above water. Soon I will be in a position to make headway into some REALsavings.Remeber this those that dont hang around because you need to to be kind toyourself were never really there in the first place. Take care
    all the best
    Rachel

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  8. excellent advice as always...if she can find a way to bring him onboard and make it a family challenge to have fun while getting rid of debt it will help too...attitude is everything, working together... we all know there are endless ways to enjoy life without spending money...now to convince him...

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  9. I was in this persons position many years ago with my (then) husband... after "the talk" he agreed to the plan but then seemed to go out of his way to continue to use his credit card and debit card and way lay the plans... I would pay off the debt and he would insist we needed to buy something else,new... I was constantly scrimping and saving and he was going around behind me undoing all the good I was doing... We had many conversations and always he would agree that we wanted to be out of debt... but then he would justify, saying he made good money so once we were out of debt he "deserved" to have what things he wanted and had no qualms about putting them on credit... after 22 years the marriage ended, this was one reason, not the only one... but I certainly hope it goes better for this reader than it did for me. Some partners simply will not be helped...

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  10. Because paying off debts can be a long process, having cheap or free treats/rewards helps to get everyone in the household on board (I discovered). Humans of all ages are hardwired that way. My husband doesn't like to be housebound on the weekends and going out can cost $$, so I'd regularly fill a thermos of home brewed coffee for him and encourage him to go bird watching on a weekend morning, which he loves to do. Many years ago he received binoculars as a gift. It's essentially a free outing. We started growing herbs and vegetables in the garden, and our sons discovered they enjoyed picking fresh items they'd grown for meals. Pull out board games for a family game night. Pop some popcorn for a family movie night. I watch for sales at the grocery store on frozen pizzas, and only buy when they're $3.00-$3.99 each, because that's cheaper than I can make them from scratch or buy them from a pizza place. For maximum $8.00 we can have a pizza night as a treat. It took time to develop those new habits, but we kept them once the debts were paid off (5-1/2 years ago), because they were enjoyable! If you can find a way to make it fun for your family, they won't feel like they're being deprived... and your spouse will get on the same page much easier without fights.

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  11. You needn't forgo ALL get togethers with friends or family (unless you really want to); creative thinking is all that's necessary to keep healthy relationships thriving. For a baby or bridal shower, offer to help decorate, or bring a homemade dessert, appetizers or even a low cost punch. You can find a punch bowl sometimes at yard sales or boot sales. Speaking of which, invite a friend or two to meet up for those sales to look for clothes for your kids, etc. If a friend has a dog and walks it, meet up to give her company. If you are used to having lunch with friends, meet at a park for a pseudo picnic, each with your own brown bagged lunch. My sister has a group of friends that take turns and get together once a month at one of their homes for a potluck dinner--they have a theme each time and rotate homes. Invited to a family birthday party? Cut flowers and greenery from your garden and bring a fresh (free) arrangement, offer to take pictures, have your kids make gifts from items you have on hand (plenty of YouTube videos on that), make up a gift basket of items in your home that you purchased buy one-get one free (such as soaps, body lotion, shaving cream, razors) or that make up or nail polish you got and never used in the cabinet... we all have new things tucked away in cabinets. You could also do a gift basket of food from your pantry, such as a package of pasta, a jar/can of sauce, a packet of herbs, bulbs of garlic. I once gave that as a gift all tied up prettily inside a colander bought at the dollar store with fresh sprigs of herbs from my garden. It's not necessary (in most cases) to take a defensive, militant stand against social gatherings with those people who matter to you. Your attitude is everything. When you're positive, kind and enthusiastic, most folks aren't likely to mentally tally monetary costs. But when your attitude is self focused, it wouldn't matter if you paid huge amounts for a gift... or a dinner... or whatever.

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  12. Dear person who wrote to Froogs. Be brave & have that talk. I wish I'd been brave enough. We both spent money we didn't have but & I knew that we had debt which I always wanted to clear. It was only when he left I found out how much there really was. Since I've been on my own I realised that I can handle the money, have cleared the debts I was left with, put some money away & just last week completed taking out the a mortgage in my own name which I know that I will clear before I retire. My friends are with me on my frugal journey & respect the fact that I can't always go on expensive nights out. We sometimes go out for breakfast 1/4 of the price of dinner. Good luck !

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  13. I took this journey with a bipolar husband and lived to tell about it. It took twice as long as it should have and it was HARD, but the only debt we have is the house. We have a nice chunk put back for a rainy day and we still live frugally. My husband has even learned to enjoy his packed lunch and frugal ways.
    You can do it. Be firm, stick to your guns. Once he realizes you are serious, he will melt down, but then it should get a little easier. Pray for wisdom.

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  14. Dear Froogs- thank you for your kind heart and down to earth wisdom. I often think many people are in awful situations that friends/ family/ onlookers observe and may have seen coming but hadn't had the bravery or honesty to say something soon enough. Thank you -you do!
    As with many huge behavioral changes in life, admitting or realising the problem, followed by taking the first step is often the hardest and most painful thing to do, that is why so many people don't and sadly live in fear. If we could all learn to ask 'Can I help?' and take time to listen to one another the world would be a happier and healthier place for all.
    Congratulations to the reader who has taken that first momentous step. The internet is an amazing support network full of selfless caring people who give hours of time, expertise and support- just like Froogs. Thank you to you all. Use it in those dark moments, insomniac nights and when you think you can't do it- there are many people out there who did, can and will. Together we are stronger. You will get through. Best of luck.

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